Transcript #022- Samurai Swordsmanship

Bjorn Aris: [00:00:00] Japanese people repair a cup which is broken, they repair it and then the cracks, they make beautiful with silver or gold, uh, sort of lacquer stuff. And the interesting thing is, a cup which has been repaired is actually more beautiful and worth more than a brand new one. Rationale being, it has, it has lived.

We all go through life and we all have cracks. People do. We all have the same problems. Why hide it? You know, this is, this is life.

Amanda Parker: Welcome to Don't Step on the Bluebells, the podcast where personal healing and transformation take center stage. I'm your host, Amanda Parker, and I'm a fellow seeker on the journey of personal growth. Join me as I delve into the stories of gifted healers, guides, and everyday people who have experienced remarkable transformations.

Listen in as they share their practical wisdom to enrich your everyday life. And don't forget to hit subscribe and never miss a new episode.[00:01:00] 

Today we're diving into the fascinating world of samurai swordsmanship and its surprising applications in modern life. Our guest, Bjorn Eris, has had a life story that reads like an adventure novel. From investment banking to entrepreneurship, now a respected Japanese swordsmanship instructor, Bjorn has spent over 35 years exploring the intersection of martial arts, Zen philosophy, and business leadership.

In this episode, we'll discover Zen in action through swordsmanship, how ancient samurai wisdom leads to personal healing and growth, practical insights on achieving balance, reducing stress, and enhancing performance in personal and professional life, through Eastern wisdom and Western knowledge. Whether you're a martial arts enthusiast, a business leader, or someone seeking unique perspectives on personal development, this conversation promises to be enlightening and transformative.

So grab your imaginary sword and let's step into the dojo of wisdom with [00:02:00] Bjorn Eris. So, Björn, I'm so happy that you've said yes to join us here on the podcast. Thank you so much for being here.

Bjorn Aris: Well, how could I not? Thank you so much for having me.

Amanda Parker: Well, what a nice way to start.

Bjorn Aris: Oh, definitely. Definitely.

But we had such a nice encounter and then a pre interview chat, um, which was meant to be like a short chat, but 45 minutes. So, I mean, wonderful. Thank you so much for, for doing all this, for taking all the time and effort for, um, The Bluebell podcast and, um, well, for you being you.

Amanda Parker: Well, I will take that compliment.

Thank you. Just for being me. Um, so I would love to hear, maybe before we dive into all of the specifics of what you do, just what is it that you're most excited about in your life at the moment?

Bjorn Aris: When you practice an art like a dō, dō for [00:03:00] way, as in iaido, Japanese horsemanship, um, middle age, starts, at 60 years of age.

So in, in the West, uh, uh, it's a bit of black and white, but the belief is that your, your, your life career goes up to 40 and then you get your peak. And then from there, there you go downhill to You know, pension. And 60 is considerably old, and out of the market. Uh, whereas when you do, uh, IAIDO, the sultan ship, it's a long way, gradually rising, long start, and then around 60, you arrive at middle age.

And so there you get into the band, and then the peak is at the end. Now, I heard this, like, 20, 30 years ago, uh, from teachers who were 70, 80, 90. And, uh, I thought, okay, sounds interesting. I believed it. Especially because one sensei, he said that he was himself surprised well into his 70s. But he said, I have never good thought of what I would [00:04:00] have learned as from 60.

And he was already then practicing for 40 years. So, um, what happens with me now, I am 59, so I'm the last year of my youth, and I notice, I notice changes in my body, and I don't notice specifically that I need to let go of old patterns. So I'm really into this transition. In my training, I see improvement, visually and factually.

Which is, uh, surprisingly, but it's nice. I need to work hard for it, but it's nice. Uh, and now I need to let go of old, uh, well, youth things. And, and really change. And that, that is not always easy. Letting go is not always easy. So I'm in that process at the moment. So, um, yeah, it's, it's, I'm, I'm, I'm going through it.

So there's a, there's an up and then down. The letting go is a bit, feels a bit like down, because you're letting things go. But. This is the process.

Amanda Parker: That's such a beautiful framing of what it's like to go through a major transition and [00:05:00] to do it with intention. A lot of people do it with, I would say, fear and blindfolds.

They don't want to know what's coming, they're afraid of what's coming, and it's not just that specific transition that you're in, but any major life change that you're going through, you know, moving house, changing jobs, starting a family. Retiring, whatever it is, and It sounds that you're really just being present with what's happening in your life now and observing what that is and just being there with it.

Bjorn Aris: That's what it is. Yes, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And I feel it. I feel it. I live it. And it happens. And then suddenly things are gone. I think, oh, okay. And then you move on. It's just, you know, things, things change. And, um, like the other day on Friday, I, I found something new and thought, Oh, I'm going to practice this for three, four days.

And then after day three, it was gone. I thought, Oh yeah, this is how it works. And then something new will [00:06:00] come up maybe tonight. I don't know yet. We'll see.

Amanda Parker: I love this. I, I, I tend to be one that holds onto the anxiety of the change, the, the creation of suffering, let's say.

Bjorn Aris: Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it's, um, well, it's a continuous exercise, right?

Um, being present is, is a continuous exercise and, um, it becomes easier over time because you're, you are aware of the fact that your thoughts, uh, are not the same as what is. Normally I don't speak about this in, in interviews, but, uh, or podcasts, but, uh, what I figured out, uh, when I started to do Zen, I started when I was 28, was that I could easily, um, first of all, from a rational point of view, it's not difficult to understand Zen and all the concepts.

That's not really. useful, because you need to feel it, you need to assimilate the knowledge. And then, I note, I started, so I got the, the frame, the picture, the theory, and then I noticed that sometimes I was moved, or things happened in my life which were [00:07:00] giving me pain and sorrow, or I was afraid something would happen, but I was very much aware that it was not happening actually.

So I was fooled by my thoughts, but the feeling of fear or pain was there. So I thought, this is extraordinary. So what I did then as a sort of, uh, self, uh, therapy, self help is the moment I will really like, you know, when the shit hit the van, I sat down on, on, on my cushion, my Zen pillow, meditating and just going deeper, deeper, deeper.

And the energy, the fear creates helped me in getting deeper. And eventually, you will find something, a little picture which is hit by this thought, which needs to be neutralized, cleansed, or whatever you want to call it. And first, events help you in life. First of all, they energize you, and if you direct that energy, you can go deeper and clean yourself, or heal yourself, or get it more aligned, or whatever.

Whatever is the phrase, [00:08:00] 

Amanda Parker: it reminds me of a conversation I had with another guest on the podcast who practices a form of shamanism. And he talked specifically about how we spend all this time building this energy. So maybe it is in the fear or the anxiety or the nervousness, you spend all this time building all this energy up within you.

And then as you You know, a Western society trying to understand spiritual practices. We say, okay, now release it. Just let it go. Let it all go. And he goes, why would you let that go? You spent all this time building this power of this energy within. Why would you just let it go? Why not just transition it or transmute it into something else?

Exactly. So I hear a bit of that in what you're sharing as well.

Bjorn Aris: Absolutely. But the point is the energy is there. So what are you going to do with it? This is an example. Uh, uh, I went through a divorce and at one point, taking care of my two kids, at one point, uh, at Wednesday, I thought like, okay, on Friday, [00:09:00] I won't have money for food.

So having two young kids, three and five at the time, uh, or three to six. Um, I thought this is a problem, you know, and how am I going to solve this? Kids need food. I need food. So I got, I got a bit of a panic. And then, um, for that day, I had five euro on a Wednesday. So I went with my daughter to the bakery, she was three.

to buy bread, because we didn't have bread, and so the bread was like two, two euros. And then my daughter says, Dad, uh, can I have a croissant, please? And I looked at her, and I thought, ah, I said, yes. I said, yes, yes, yes. Which was 60 cents. I thought, oh, okay, good. And she was happy. And then, and I got home, and I thought, this is not going well, so what am I going to do?

Because I realized that, you know, it's, it's Wednesday now, we've got food for tonight. It's not Friday, but I'm [00:10:00] panicking for Friday. And so I sat down meditating and in the end you go deep, deep, deep, deep, deep. And then you find some rock where you can cling to think like, Oh, okay. I still have like 48 hours and miraculously.

Then, you know, within these 48 hours, the heavens kick in, and suddenly money comes from somewhere. And this has happened to me a couple of times. So it's, it's this feeling like, you know, you, you create this vacuum, ground yourself deep and look for what's the root cause of your panic. Because why should I panic now for something which might happen on Friday?

This is actually, from a Western rational point of view, ridiculous. And, uh, but it happens that you panic. But when you, you know, use the energy to go deeper, deeper, deeper, then it helps you get more grounded. You get more clear. You clear up your system. And then up until now, something has always happened, uh, that, uh, resolved it.

Which is, which is, I think, wonderful, um, how it works. I don't know how it works, but that it works. [00:11:00] You know, there is an interaction with your environment, uh, with, with your, with, with the heavens, with whatever you want to call it. Um, with your guides, it's, it's there. I,

Amanda Parker: I love this example and I'm going to share a much more superficial version of that, um, where there was something that I was paying for, it was like a beauty service and it ended up being way more money than I had wanted to spend than I thought that I could spend.

And in the same literal moment that I'm having this realization that like, Oh my God, this is actually going to be something that. Is out of budget that I didn't actually want to put the money into. And then I check and see that someone has signed up for an online program. that I had online for literally the exact same amount of money.

And I just sat there going, there's no way. And of course I was a little bit pissed at the price of everything. And I still thought, Amanda, this is [00:12:00] working out exactly as it's supposed to.

Bjorn Aris: Yeah, those are the nice, nice little things in life. You know, it's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amanda Parker: And it's funny when you think of how many things you might deprive yourself of for those same reasons, because you are afraid that it won't work out or it won't come through.

And that's almost cutting off that whole flow and communication with what could be possible.

Bjorn Aris: Oh, I'm so with you. I mean, fear is the biggest blocking factor.

And,

and, you know, I think 90 plus percent of fear is illusion. It's made up. There's, there's no reason for it. And, uh, well, another one liner, uh, It's that 90 percent of people regret is what they did not do.

We wanted to do and they didn't do it because of fear or excessive thinking or, you know, all sort of stuff. I mean, fear. I was in Africa at one point attacked by an elephant and then, you know, you shit your pants and you run and you run really, really fast. [00:13:00] And later I realized I was not afraid. My body did what I needed to do.

And that's actually a very interesting concept, that your body will take care, your body will do what is necessary, unless of course you block it. But at that moment, I ran. So the body knew what to do.

Amanda Parker: Well, this is the perfect transition because I would love to hear, in your words, what is this Samurai Swordsmanship?

What is this work that you've dedicated so much of your life to?

Bjorn Aris: Yeah, well, Samurai Swordsmanship is actually a, a, a school or, or nearly a religion maybe. It's Zen in action. I would call myself Zen in action. And, uh, it's a door, a way. Uh, those Japanese word for way and way of life, when you get born, you die, what are you going to do in between?

Well, these, these schools, they provide you with a structure, uh, that will ensure development [00:14:00] and enriching, uh, uh, uh, development of your life, enriching of your life, and actually very, make it a very interesting life. And it's, it's, um, dedicated. It used to be solidership to, um, to survive, right? Because we were fighting on the field and we had a good technique.

You would walk away, and the other one would stay there in various pieces, because that's what a soul does. So, uh, that was the, the original way, and then later developed until, uh, so from survival, it turned into a way to learn how to live life. And it teaches you, well, first of all, it takes care of the body, the mind, and the soul.

And it teaches you, uh, uh, unification of body and mind.

With,

as a result, um, an increased awareness, I would call that in a widening of your horizon, a deepening of your consciousness, and as a result, exponential rise of quality of your life. And, and how, uh, would be the first question, very, very simple, [00:15:00] that the more you practice and you develop yourself on the inside, uh, the, the more you get, uh, detached from the outside for feeling good.

Because feeling good is something which is on the inside. And in the West we are taught that feeling good is on the outside. Like when you have

Amanda Parker: those beauty treatments and, and,

Bjorn Aris: and for example, when you have a, you know, your car or your career or your house or your boat, whatever, you know, you need to have stuff in order to feel good, which is not the case.

Your basic things. Okay. Your bed, roof. That's of course food. Um, but, um, freedom is on the inside and feeling good is on the inside. And the more aware you become, the more you can interact with the environment. Uh, with whatever that is. And the environment, in, in Japan they call it ma, ma is space. And we, in the West, we think that space is empty.

But space is not empty at all. First of all, music is, you can hear music because of the space in between the [00:16:00] notes. And so you need that space. It's, it's a con, it's an interaction. Um, so, I am, I have a physical body, and it correlates with the non physical body, which is not visible. It's unseen, but it's there.

A very basic example, Radio Bolivia is right here now. You know, I'm based in The Hague, Holland, you are in London. We both have Radio Bolivia in our room.

Amanda Parker: What is Radio Bolivia?

Bjorn Aris: Radio Bolivia is the radio station from Bolivia, the country in South America. And they do live music. And Just checking. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Radio still is with you and with me, but we can't hear it.

Yeah.

But when we get this world receiver, you know, I'm going to look for the station, then suddenly we hear this nice music, which is Radio Bolivia. You can hear it with, it's not the little box, the transistor radio, which creates that sound. It makes it audible.

So, um, that's interesting because the music is already there. And this is an easy to understand, [00:17:00] uh, example, I think for a lot of people. Uh, so when the music is there, a whole lot of other things are there as well. And it's interesting to interact with it. And, uh, the more you develop in Yaidos, in Swordsmanship, the more the Horizon of Wildness consciousness deepens, uh, the more you can receive and interact with.

And this is really enriching than a lot of, yeah, windows, I would say, or maybe a better thing. You've got this, with Christmas, you've got these calendars for the last 24, 30 days with chocolates behind each window. So, uh, the more windows you can open, the deeper you practice, the more windows you can open, the more chocolate you get.

And this is the long, uh, start and then you get into the bend and the peak is at the end. So like when you're 80, 85, you know, then there's so many windows are open that you easily step through the last window. It's like very smooth.

Amanda Parker: I love that. I was, I was just thinking as you're talking about that's really practice building the Advents calendar.

You're really [00:18:00] practicing every day, but you're getting a reward.

Bjorn Aris: Yeah. Oh, definitely. Oh, but that, that is, and that is, I'm so enthusiastic about it. I practiced for 40 years and I can still remember the first moment I started to practice like 10 minutes. I was like exuberant. You're like, Oh, this is for me.

You know, I was 20 years old. And I can remember that Wednesday, that moment, it was a Wednesday evening. And that feeling, it's a high quality feeling of, of light, of pleasure, of like, uh, uh, insight of really like, whoa, this is connecting. And I regularly still have those moments and this is, and the quality is the same.

So in the end it adds up, it adds up. So you, you build, uh, the, the, the, the collection of lights and insight, light and insights built up. And in the end, you know, more and more, but the pleasure is still like a hundred percent. So already now I'm looking forward to my, um, training tonight, not knowing what will happen.

Uh, [00:19:00] but I'm sure something which will happen. It's always happened something which will think like, Oh yes, nice. And this is how you build it up. So it's, um, it's in, in the West, we have this idea, a bit of, not probably not all over the West, but in Holland you have this Calvinistic thinking, which, which roughly says like, you know, life is suffering.

And when you listen to the, uh, the priest or the, uh, The vicar will tell you what to do, then maybe, maybe you will be allowed to go to heaven. This is the belief. And, uh, but it's all very dark and difficult and, you know, you, you're not allowed to enjoy. Well, I don't think that's the case. I think that, that life is, uh, uh, wherever you are on the planet, it's, it's, uh, it's a way it's with a lot of bands.

And you cannot see around the corner. But in my experience, especially when you practice, uh, sourcemanship, which is my flavor. I mean, there are 10, 000 flavors. Around every corner, there's a bench. You can sit down and have a rest. And then, [00:20:00] when you look next to you, you see a little package. And you think, oh, what's that?

Oh, it says my name on it. And you open it, and then, you know, it's either, it's inside, or, uh, an idea, or something you can let go. And that's nice. So then you have to take your rest and then you continue your way. And this is how life is. Of course you need to walk. This is important. Otherwise you will not move forward.

Amanda Parker: So thinking about, um, so swordsmanship. in practice. So you're not obviously going to a battlefield every day with a sword and facing off. I mean, I don't actually know. How are you doing that? The real question is like, what, what does that look like as a practice as like something that you're doing?

Because you say it's Zen in action. So I can start to get a feeling.

Bjorn Aris: Yeah. Of

Amanda Parker: what that might mean.

Bjorn Aris: Well.

Amanda Parker: Yeah.

Bjorn Aris: Yeah. I'm sorry to interrupt. Uh, when, when you say going to the battlefield, that reminds me, uh, of my time when I was working as an investment banker, that, that is going to [00:21:00] the battlefield every day.

Yeah. That, that is so sharky. That's really not bad. Um, so, but, uh, sourcemanship is all about, uh, harmony, peace, and, uh, and, and understanding of passion to develop it. Now, in order to develop it, you need to, uh, clean your system, uh, otherwise you resonate with the negative issues from someone else and then you get to the deadlock.

So how do we do this? We go to dojo is a place where you just practice. Could be a gym, could be a field, could be a hall, could be any place. Originally, the dojo was the place in front of the shrine in the temple. Even today, they, they, uh, practice sword techniques. in the temple at that place in front of the shrine to clear the environment.

So with swordsmanship you cut through the air with intention and apparently that changes the atmosphere. So [00:22:00] this is interesting, because it's not visible, but you can feel it. And even people, and I've noticed it, people who have never thought about spirituality, uh, let alone swordmanship, or the effect of it, they notice, hey, what's going on here?

Something's different. So it's quite strong. The dojo, actually, it's a Japanese word, so you could translate it as place where you practice martial art. There are many translations. The translation I like best is place of awakening. And the question, of course, is what awakes? Well, that's for everyone to, to find out themselves.

And we start the lesson with, uh, Zen meditation, which is, uh, very simply said, counting your breath. And for a small period of time, like five to 10 minutes, and then we do warmup and then we practice kata. Now, a kata is a, uh, a little story of a fight. And because we don't have opponents, we don't, but the sword you can't train with opponents because it's dangerous.

So we have to visualize the opponent. But the [00:23:00] way the kata is written, designed over the years and sometimes centuries, it's very clear how the fight is conducted. So, and what you should do. So it's defined. So the kata is actually a little box in which the fight takes place and you have to behave in a way or cut in a way to win the fight.

And the interesting thing is that it is to box off with information. How is the fight going? What is happening? At the same time, uh, when you go deeper, there is knowledge. And at this deepest, there's knowing. The Kata is a strict barriers and you need to have these strict barriers to find the freedom. Now that sounds like, you know, this is a strict barriers and freedom is opposite.

Um, but when you're on a leaf on the river, you know, you float on the surface. And depending on the wind or the stream, you go left, right, or you get stuck on the side. But the treasure It's deep, it's hidden. You need to dig for the treasure. You look at the treasure map, you need to dig for it, and dig deep, and then you will find the [00:24:00] treasure.

And this is the reason why the kata is confined with barriers, with limits, i. e. strictly written how it should be performed, because that forces you, between brackets, to go deep. You're not allowed to cross the barriers. So you have to go deep, you have to go through the barriers in yourself in order to find the treasure.

And at the same time, it's still fighting. So you cannot do it like a bit of like recreational waving the sword like La Di Da. It's, um, the intention of how you perform the kata is you take a life or your life is taken. Which is quite an unpleasant thought when the first time I heard that. Oh no, that doesn't feel good.

Ah, there we go, it doesn't feel good. Why? And so by digesting on the subject, which took me six or seven years, uh, seriously paying attention to like all, it calls out all sorts of emotions and fears and, and, and other stuff you need to work with and continue practicing and cutting through the air in order to release that and get [00:25:00] deeper.

And the, the purpose of the sword art is Sayanauchi, to win the fight without drawing the sword. Obviously, you can only do that, possibly, when you know how to draw the sword very good and quick. Because then you know what you're talking about. So you can step away from it, or it doesn't become necessary.

You avoid it from like 10 kilometers, kilometers distance.

Amanda Parker: There's a few points that you brought up in that sharing. So one for me, what I'm hearing is that, um, so the swordsmanship is something that used to take place in front of the shrine to really clear the air and energy, I assume to make it. Maybe more holy or clear, clearer, cleaner for people to actually go and be able to worship.

Bjorn Aris: Absolutely. And still today it happens like 2024. This still is practice.

Amanda Parker: So it feels like the swordsmanship is a [00:26:00] type of energy healing in a different context.

Bjorn Aris: Uh, yeah. Yeah. I, I, yes, I would if maybe I, I would call it, I've never called that before. I would call it light working. Mm

Amanda Parker: mm-Hmm. . What do you mean by that?

Bjorn Aris: Well, lightworking is that you are able to, uh, clear energy with someone or in an environment

Amanda Parker: and

Bjorn Aris: make it more harmonious.

Amanda Parker: And at the same time that you're actually doing that lightworking in front of the temple, it's also, it's doing that work within yourself as well.

Bjorn Aris: You have to do it first here in order to be able to do it there, of course.

Let's see, here you can do the work and that will allow eventually to, uh, perform it on the outside. For example, I cannot, I cannot connect with you if I can't connect with myself. So first I need to be able to connect with myself before I can connect with someone else.

Amanda Parker: And I would assume that. [00:27:00] In that practice, the people who are actually clearing the energy in front of the shrine, they've been practicing for a long time.

Is that like a position of honor to be able to do that?

Bjorn Aris: I would guess so. Yes. Yes. Because the further someone is, is on the way, uh, the, the more purified he or she is. Interesting is that in Japan, I think it's about 40 percent of the females practice swordsmanship as well. So it's not, you know, samurai seems to be very male, but it's both sexes.

Amanda Parker: Yeah, I think I asked you that in our first conversation, just that this is a

Bjorn Aris: more

Amanda Parker: masculine, masculine sort of practice. Let's learn more, you know?

Bjorn Aris: Yeah, yeah. Well, they taught me a lot about women.

Amanda Parker: Yeah. Watch out for a female samurai with a sword. Well, females in

Bjorn Aris: general.

Amanda Parker: Yeah. So something else that you had said that I find really interesting and also powerful, I know, especially for people who [00:28:00] are listening, who are like finding their own journey forward through healing or transformation and, um, this concept of, the freedom in the boundaries, freedom in constraint.

And this is, it's something that actually my husband and I have talked about quite a bit in terms of, if you have all the freedom and possibilities in the world, then you're going to be overwhelmed. It's hard to know where to begin or what to do. If you actually have strong constraints, It's easier to begin and feel fulfillment and see progress, et cetera.

So I find that so powerful, especially maybe particularly in a Western world, but for a generation of people who have any possibility in the world at their fingertips, and It almost feels like as a result of that, there's like a rise in loneliness or anxiety or depression or that people are really struggling [00:29:00] because they can't, they don't know how to find themselves within that.

Bjorn Aris: It's, it's amazing. It's like, it's, it's, uh, I, I did my first keynote on the subject in 2006 and at the time, I think six or 7 percent of the Dutch labor market. had burnout or burnout symptoms. And I thought, you know, we can change this. And then 30%, 30 percent was chronically tired. Well, what does it mean chronically tired?

That means that you forgot how it is to feel good. You know, you started with your double espressos off, you know, midday, you throw in the Red Bull and God knows what. So I thought, you know, this has to change. And my audience is all capitals of industry. They were with me. So I thought, okay, it will change.

It will change. I was hopeful. Maybe one or two years. Well now we're at 24, 2024, 20%, 2 0 percent of the Dutch labour market has burnout symptoms. It's like, I cannot believe it. So it's really, it's going up there. It's amazing. Uh, then again, so this means it's a growth market for me.

Amanda Parker: on all fronts. Yes. All front. [00:30:00] Yes.

Bjorn Aris: They're on all fronts. And it's a 360 . Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah, so, so, um, the first thing is, is that it's about body and mind. And, and body is something which is not addressed in our culture. What we did is like around Descartes and, and from there, Descartes, the French philosopher, what he did is he lifted rational thinking to be equal to reality.

Well, this is not the case because if that would have been the case, you know, we fixed the equation on both sides and no problems. So, well, look around you, there are many problems, so it, that's, it's not reality. It's a language, like, like, uh, Java, uh, programming is a language, or French is a language, or playing cello is a language, it's a language.

And it's not solely a head thing, and what sort, sortmanship teaches you is that it starts with your gut feeling, the hara. And from the Hara, you move up to the heart, and [00:31:00] then from the heart and up, then you use the head for Janko. So it's the third thing you put on top of it. This is the order. But, uh, this is, okay, everybody understands the logic and now even the science is, is investigating that there are a lot of sort of brain cells in your gut area.

And there's the signals going up from the vagus nervous or something, though. to the brain instead of the other way around. Around, uh, even, I remember somewhere around 2000, there was the first research on people where they put all this This, this electron things on the body and on the mind. And then there was an event, like a sound or a picture, and then the first reaction was here in

the

heart.

And the significantly later, from science point of view, it was the brain. This tells me that the wisdom of the body is exponentially greater than the intelligence of the mind.

So

we need to learn to listen to the body and connect to it. But this is not in our curriculum. This is not what we do in daily practice.

We do everything rational thinking and [00:32:00] by heart. So this is one, but then when you make, when you contact the body, you start to feel, and you also start to feel things which are not pleasant, which are stored there, which you put away. And people are afraid for that, they think, Oh my God, you know, or maybe it will feel so terrible.

I won't be able to do this and that. And then so they don't do it. And the balance in nature is that in principle, your body will never give you so much that you can't bear it. It will always be dosed. And my personal experience is that, you know, um, of everything I thought it would be disastrous, like it was like a hundred units of suffering.

It always turned out to be. Two to five units that my image was like, ah, no panic. I don't dare to, you know, squeeze your buttocks or I'm going to do it. And then, oh, that wasn't actually too bad. I think you need to have, you know, the, the desire and the courage to do it. And courage is from the Latin word core, C O R, which means heart.[00:33:00] 

So you'd have the heart to do it. Um, when there's too much fear, then you're not doing it. So by connecting with the body, yeah, you start to feel and you start to heal. You start to let go of excess, excessive tension and, uh, made up fears, but also, of course, all traumatic events, which are not there anymore, but the imprint is still there.

So if you neutralize that, then, you know, that, that part of the past will lose its control. It will not determine your behavior at this very moment. So you're more free, so you're rising the violence. There's more, more room for life, more room for new experiences. So this requires daily practice, which is training.

And the confinements or the rules, or the barriers, So that you don't skip away, because it's like, you know, when you go to this, this, this spot, which is sensitive, it's like a magnet, you do, you know, you don't want to go there, you'd rather go away, which is, which is natural behavior, of course. But the kata helps you, guides you to constantly address it [00:34:00] and to, you know, do your cuts and do your thing.

And part of the work is, is, uh, of course, on the subconscious level. So you don't know what is happening. But you're feeding the system, and it has its own rhythm, its own time, and you get your rewards. And the rewards are really worth it. It's taking every step again and again and again.

Amanda Parker: Okay, now I want to know what are the rewards?

What would you define as rewards of this practice?

Bjorn Aris: Oh, well, uh, this is a one hour podcast, right?

Amanda Parker: Maybe the highlights reel of rewards.

Bjorn Aris: It's the feeling of being extraordinarily rich. Really that feeling. And I have been, uh, at my investment banking time, I was, I was wealthy. Uh, I've, you know, I've done everything you can do with money, um, which didn't make me happy at all.

And actually, it resulted in that I gave half of my money away to [00:35:00] people I thought really needed it. And the other half I used for experiences. Because I think life is about experiences, you know, it's not about thinking this and that and then, you know, not doing anything, me just experiencing the experience.

And so I had a wealthy life according to Western standards, uh, before my 35 years old. After that, uh, I became so much more rich, having no money, you know, having the five euro on a Wednesday and being worried about how I'm going to get food for my kids. Despite that worry, tremendously rich because of the feeling, the interaction, the connection, the awareness, the independence.

So the freedom, the real freedom and, uh, and the growth, uh, it doesn't stop. It's not like 40 and down. No, it continues. And with so much, uh, life force and just feeling good. I am, I'm, everybody wants to have this feeling. It's like, it's orgasmic, but then much longer, [00:36:00] and it's, it's, it's more, it's better. It's higher.

It's more heavenly. And this happens during the day, a couple of times and in training. Yeah. And, and eventually, uh, the kata will take over, which is very interesting, but first you learn the kata. You need to learn the form, where do I put my foot, my head, where, where, where is this guy actually, where do I cut him?

And so you need to learn this basics, and then this will allow you. Because you know the barriers to, to go and train the inside and today I want to train this, this. And then I found out that, uh, at one point in my development, uh, I wanted to train something, but then at the first kata I practiced, normally you practice like a hundred, 150.

Um, my body gave another, a different signal, thought, Oh, this feels different. And I just followed, started to follow my body. And this is where the form started to teach you. And this is where, you know, everything becomes so much more magic. Because it, it goes like, you know, whatever I'm thinking is apparently irrelevant.

My body tells me something different. And this is, you know, this is, [00:37:00] I think this is why being a human is wonderful, that we can do this consciously.

Amanda Parker: So what, so someone is listening now and they're like, okay, I want to learn how to practice this. What does that look like? look like? What does that mean? Do you find a dojo?

Do you read a book on Zen?

Bjorn Aris: Well, it's follow your heart. I think that's important. The way it works in my, in my view, is that we all have intuition. Now, um, the trick is to, to learn how to listen to it. And, uh, when you've got an orchestra, you know, a lot of, uh, instruments, players, At the moment, people have in their head a full blown orchestra, like the drums, the violins, the trumpets, everything is learned.

Hence the 20 percent burnout. Whereas the intuition is the triangle in the back. You can't hear it. So first thing we need to do is to slow [00:38:00] down. the orchestra and to, to put the noise down so you can allow, you can allow, oh, yeah, here it is. Okay. Maybe that's intuition. So, um, so you need to first define what am I hearing because it could also be emotion interfering all pictures, you know, and especially when you're not grounded, it's like, oh, you feel everything, which is all trauma, you know, sending noises.

So the first step will be how to learn to listen to your intuition and your heart. And then the second, if you, if you can do that, then the second thing is to learn to trust it. Because what might be interfering is conditioning and the way you are taught or educated or the way you've been taught to think.

And, uh, we have all had this experience. We all had the experience that you felt it was X and then you started to think, you decided to do Y. And then after, in the end, it was, Oh, no, it was excellent. He said, I knew it. Yeah, of course you knew it because it was your intuition, your conditioning took over. So this is important.

So before [00:39:00] sending everybody to dojo and swordsmanship, you know, people, people should follow their own way because there are many flavors, not swordsmanship as a flavor, uh, flower arrangement, uh, uh, drawing of calligraphy, um, many ways to develop this, but very important is to look on the inside. in order to be able to perform on the outside.

That's the order. And then the, the way of learning is, you know, first you get your information phase, then you start to practice within the barrier so you can deeper, deeper, deeper. And then in the end, the kata, the form will take over. In Japan, everything is kata. Everything is set form. Here in the West, we're more tend like, Oh, today we do this and tomorrow we do that.

And having said that, my practice of swordsmanship is not purely swordsmanship. Of course, this is what I do. But next to it, I have done various education courses for intuitive development. I did neurofeedback. This is an electronic way how to trim your, your, uh, uh, frequencies, [00:40:00] uh, I've done all sort of extra, um, activities and teachings, which contributed to my scholarship.

And they came on my way, as swordsmanship did. I mean, I never envisioned myself becoming a swordsmanship practitioner, let alone write about it, let alone do kingdoms about it. You know, this all developed. It happened to me in a natural way. Importantly to say with this is I always felt, I always did what I felt I had to do.

Whereas a lot of people always said, you know, this is your weak point because you don't think. You just do. And indeed,

looking back, looking back, I can see a very clear line on how I got here and how I, you know, keep on doing this. Even if I want to, if I think I want to do something else, you know, life pulls me back to sort out, uh, which is okay. I'm happy with it, but it's, it's, uh, so basically connect to the body. This is the most important point, connect to the body [00:41:00] and everything which hinders in the body.

You know, try to resolve it, try to work with it. And there are many ways to do this. So whatever is your taste or whatever works for you, it's like, you know, It will free up space, and you need to have free space on the inside to enjoy life more. Because life is on the inside, not on the outside.

Amanda Parker: So what I'm hearing is that, like, there's almost this first to feel that nudge of either intuition or something kind of calling you forward, to learn how to listen to that intuition.

And then learn how to trust it that this is actually what you need to be listening to and that's probably through practice and doing and seeing the results of what happens and then seeing what are those things that actually come in. So in your case, this was the swordsmanship that came in and keeps calling you for someone else.

It could possibly be. yoga, or it could possibly be a different meditative practice, or [00:42:00] it could be, I don't know, walking in the forest, like something that continuously calls you into a practice that you're doing regularly, so that you're able to connect both with your body, your mind and your spirit on a regular basis.

Bjorn Aris: It's, it's interesting, because what you mentioned, I do yoga, I do Bikram yoga since a couple of years, it's tremendously helped me. I do forest bathing. So, walking through for it because, you know, when you connect with that, you, you, it's like a bath. They call it forest bathing in Japan. Uh, I do meditation, uh, you know, all these sort of things I do because it's all helping and you know, staying connected with my body and, um, and in the end, uh, this is also why what sourcemanship is for, um, working on becoming a better human being.

And the way to do that is to, to get rid of the hindrances and the old trauma on the inside and whatever way you go do for that is, um, one thing which is, uh, not [00:43:00] often mentioned, but which is key, uh, in whatever you do, whether it's forest bathing or meditation or, or, or anything, uh, is discipline.

Discipline is key.

Amanda Parker: Oh, gosh. I have a hard time with that word. Yeah.

Bjorn Aris: Yeah. Yeah. Discipline is key.

Amanda Parker: Yeah. That's, that's fascinating because even as a coach, what I usually bring to my clients, you know, do you go to the gym and you show up once or twice a week every so often and expect to see, you know, your muscles growing in a six pack?

No. You need to keep showing up for what it is that you want and what you want to create. Yeah. And then over time, after showing up. You'll be able to see the results of that and to feel the results of that. And it's, it's life lessons for me too.

Bjorn Aris: Yeah. And it's, but just never give up, never give up. So this is where the fighting comes in.

You need to fight for yourself. And I, of course, I have moments that I really do not feel like going to the dojo. Um, [00:44:00] but I learned that there's actually no need to feel like going to the dojo in order to go to the dojo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but this

Amanda Parker: is

Bjorn Aris: this. So it's already where you can, um, this is the Zen thing.

Of course, you know, you're aware of the thought. I don't feel whatever. That's okay. Fine. You can have that thought. It doesn't interfere with going to the dojo. This is where the discipline comes in. And always, always, always, always after training, Oh, you can thank yourself so much. I'm so happy. I did it. Or go to the workout or the yoga, whatever, you know, you always feel rewarded.

I'm happy I did. You did this for yourself, but you need to do it.

Amanda Parker: So how was it that you found swordsmanship? Because it sounds like it was almost by accident.

Bjorn Aris: It was by, well, yeah, it, it, it was karma. And I, I started doing jujitsu. Which [00:45:00] is, uh, fighting, which was like, whoa, this is, this is something I can do.

This fits with me. And then my, my girlfriend at the time, she gave me the book Shogun from James Clafell, which deals with all Japan. And, uh, everything was Japanese. It was like, oh, wonderful. You know, Japanese cup. Oh, I love it. Uh, and, and these samurai guys, they did Zen. Oh, I need to do Zen. And so I came in with my pinstripe.

Look at what

Amanda Parker: they're doing. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Bjorn Aris: Yeah. It's like copy paste. This is how it starts. Copy paste is how we human beings start. And I didn't understand anything of them, really like nothing. And I thought, we spoke the same language, but I thought, what are they talking about? You know, this is, I can't make money this way.

See, I was a banker at

the

time. I was intrigued. And, uh, so I developed and then I, at one time met, uh, uh, in my Jujitsu dojo, uh, a teacher who did, um, uh, Yai, uh, sword machine, and, uh, it was mesmerizing. It was [00:46:00] mesmerizing. He did something with the atmosphere and the way, it was his energy. And I thought, wow, this is special.

Sometime later, I was in the bookshop, and I saw a cover of a Japanese sensei, Japanese teacher, uh, with a sword on the cover, and I saw the cover, and I knew, this is what I need to do. I didn't buy the book, I just saw the cover, I went out, looked for a teacher to start, and, uh, started to train with the sword.

Uh, my teacher and I, we didn't go well together. So I parted after a year. Then I picked up my own pace, uh, and organized myself. And, uh, I was especially interested in, in the source of course, because the water is the clearest at the source. So I really looked deep into, you know, where can I, During it in Japan and whether it's related to this subject, um, I've been, uh, teachers came on my way.

You know, this, this, this like boring, uh, actually saying like, and when you read the teacher appears, you know, well, yeah, okay, true, true, [00:47:00] took them a long time.

Yeah.

Having said that, having said that, one of my best teachers said to me after 10 years of practice with him, three, three times a week. He said, Björn, all my students teach me something,

and

you Björn, you teach me patience.

What wonderful, so, so, and, and, and in the meantime, you know, you enjoy all these things, you enjoy these new insights, you enjoy that you can let go, you feel more free, more light and the new experiences and, and, and this is what life is about. So you live life.

Amanda Parker: And so now in your present day life, you actually help.

So you teach, you've written books on the topic, you actually teach people how to engage with these techniques. Maybe you can just share a bit about what that looks like in your present life.

Bjorn Aris: Okay. Yeah. So

Amanda Parker: present life as opposed to your 20 [00:48:00] something investment banker life.

Bjorn Aris: Yeah, yeah. And, um, so, uh, yeah, I've got a couple activities.

Of course, my main Uh, the, the red line in my life is practice. This is what I do. I have got a dojo where I teach people and practice myself. Uh, my teachings are for free because, you know, you cannot price this. Uh, and then again, I think it's a huge responsibility to, uh, if you have the knowledge to share it and I, I share unconditionally, first of all, how can I decide what I can share for someone?

Yes or no? I don't know. So I share unconditionally. And the more I share, the more space there is for me to learn. So I think this is, this is a nice mechanism. Then of course, I need to make some money. I translated the, um, knowledge of swordsmanship into very practical, uh, teachings for business, for people on the workflow, for, for boards, for teams and what have you.

And I always use, uh, movement to, to explain, [00:49:00] because first they do some exercises and they feel experienced, and then I connect. the theory. So then they can feel and then they can place into frame, which is a very rewarding way of learning things. Uh, this has been investigated scientifically. And I think the results were that after two to six months, after one workshop, people could remember seven, zero, 70 percent of the essence and 80 percent 83 percent of the participants.

Uh, adapters and change one or two things in their business private life. So this is high impact and, and I like that because then this is useful for my life. You know, it's not like I'm telling something and people don't remember it. So this is a waste of time for both parties. Like your average, you know, PowerPoint presentation and then you get your certificate.

So this is what I have been doing for, for corporates and middle companies actually across the world. I've, I've had more than 60 nationalities, 60 countries, um, sharing this and it works on [00:50:00] all, you know, it doesn't matter where you come from. It works because the basic concept of human being is everywhere the same.

We differ in the cultural layer, but underneath it's all the same. And you can see that because I read bodies, so you can see the body language. So when I was in Kenya at one point doing, uh, for the, for the, uh, management of Kenya Airways, which were represents from Rwanda, Burundi, Sudan, Tanzania, whatever.

And I saw exactly the same patterns in the movement, uh, which, which, uh, uh, reveals. They're all revealed, like, you know, their strategy, the way of thinking or how they would behave in a meeting or under pressure as in Europe or Asia. It's exactly the same. Uh, so this is what I do, uh, keynotes then, um, to offload knowledge, uh, I wrote books.

And, uh, the, the first one is the cutting edge, the Marshall of business. Which, uh, has been published in Dutch, English, Spanish, Romanian, Greek, I think. And I was contacted by a publisher, and [00:51:00] he wanted to have a meeting, and I thought he needed a training. Because, yeah, because I thought these guys, they go from paper to e publication, so how do they do that, you know.

So they wanted advice, and I could help them. Because I always combine my business experiences of an investment banker with the present knowledge. So both sides I cover. And then after half an hour, he said, I'm going to publish a book. And I said, excuse me. He said, I'm going to publish it. I said, I don't have a book.

He said, no, you're going to write one. And I thought he was joking. So I thought, okay, you joke, I can joke as well. He said, sure deal. You know, I thought, whatever. I thought this was a prank and it turned out to be, it was real. So then I had a bit of stress. I wrote the book, gave me tremendous headache because the way I am, I feel the moment and then things come up and then it feels good.

So it's okay. But then when you need to write it down, it still needed to feel good. Yeah. Yeah. And this is the other side of the brain. So I need to go from here to there. This will be like, Oh, you know, difficult. [00:52:00] I managed. Uh, so that was the cutting edge. And then five, four years ago, four years ago, I was at a seminar in Munich for the automotive industry and the aerospace industry.

So all suits, uh, doing a keynote and then the people organizing it or some of them were young people like 20, 25 years old. And so they asked me, well, what are you doing here? I'll explain in a bit. And they looked at me like, this guy's bonkers. What are you doing with a sword, you know? And that, I did my keynote.

And then they came to me and they said, this is what we want. This is what we want. Exactly the way you tell, this is how we should do it. And it was so enthusiastic, of course, which, which I felt heartwarming. And then on the way back from Munich to The Hague, it's eight hours and a train halfway. I thought, I need to write a book for these guys.

Thanks. So this is why I wrote Lessons of a Samurai, The Ultimate Guide for Meaningful Existence, and, um, which is translating in English as well, by the way, and this is, it's a bestseller. It's skyrocketing. It's [00:53:00] everyday books are sold, which is highly rewarding and also humbling. So it really, it really motivates me to, to do my best better in the dojo.

So I become more transparent because sometimes this responsibility is a bit too much. Uh, they think, Oh, this really has a fact, you know, people with reviews and it helps them in their life. And then they go, I need to do my best more in order to really have it clear and without any taste of my own in it.

Um, so yeah, this is what I do.

Amanda Parker: I hear so many other things that you do. Um, if I may, of course, because I, I really, um, I have this sense of you and not having worked with you in the same space or anything like that. But You know, even just the nuances of what you share that you can read bodies like you're, you are a healer in so much of what you're doing, helping people connect [00:54:00] in with their own body just by what you see is happening and how that's shifting through the work that you do together, whether that's in the dojo or in like a corporate boardroom, same thing, um, And even with this purity of intention and clarity of intention, you're shifting the energy of a space.

So as you said, the light working, but I mean, I have my own words for that. So it's a similar thing, but I, I see it in energy because I can also feel when the energy of a room shifts, you know, and getting an understanding of why that's happening for me. I have my own methods of how I might do that often with humor or even just.

channeling Reiki energy or whatever it is. Um, but that's spectacular. So I, the reason that I had reached out and I mean, I told you this, um, in my message even because I had never even considered the possibility of [00:55:00] this specific healing technique that you use. And I love how your answers have been very humble that like, yeah, well, you just pick your art and you go with it and you go into the practice of it, et cetera.

But the mastery of your craft and the way that you share it is such powerful healing work for everyone who gets to come in contact with you.

Bjorn Aris: I'm getting shy now. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I do my best. Yeah. And every day I try to be better than the day before. And coming now to my middle age, you know, there's still a lot of work to be done.

I look forward to it because it's fun.

Amanda Parker: So if I asked you, what does healing mean to you? How would you answer that?

Bjorn Aris: I used it, uh, with the, the lesson on samurai is a bit of, uh, I used the kintsugi. And, [00:56:00] uh, the kintsugi is the, um, uh, way, uh, Japanese people repair a cup, uh, which is broken. And they, they repair it, and then the cracks, they make beautiful with silver or gold, uh, sort of lacquer stuff.

And the interesting thing is, a cup which has been repaired is actually, uh, more beautiful and worth more than a brand new one. Rationale being, it has, it has lived. And we all, we all go through life and we all have cracks. People all have the same problems. Uh, but we don't talk about them. But when you do in a group, you think, Oh, yeah, I have that.

I have them. Actually, they're all the same, same shit, if I could say. Um, so, so, uh, why hide it? You know, this is, this is life, you know, I've got lines in my face, you know, this tells something about running, running for an elephant and all the other stuff I did. You know, uh, this, this is what happens in life.

So it's okay to share that. So to take off the mask and, you know, and be yourself. And [00:57:00] when you repair your, your inner trauma, you, you, the trauma will, the remembrance will stay. But the tension. will go away. This is fantastic because then, first of all, you, you'll be a better version of yourself, uh, a wider, wiser version, but you will not have the past having control over you.

And that's important because life is in the here and now, which is already gone. So there's a new now and the invitation is to be fully present in the here and now. So that's the mark on the horizon. And on your way to it, whether you walked away for your sword art, or yoga, or flower arrangement, or anything, doesn't matter.

As long as you do it, you walk, and have the discipline to continue walking, you know, you'll, you'll get there, and you will get a very rich life. And, and one of the richest, one of the moments I remember, 28, uh, my relationship ended with my girlfriend at the time, and I was crying a lot. And then I, but I was also, also started Zen, And I suddenly realized that actually [00:58:00] I felt much more, uh, when I cried than when I was laughing.

And I thought, this is interesting. The feeling of what you have when crying is much more rich. It's a bit of a cotton feeling than laughing. And I thought, whoa. And so I became aware of actually that before that, I thought that crying is a bad thing to do. So I don't cry. But when that happened, I thought, oh, it's actually quite a rich emotion.

So now and then, you just need to upload and then enjoy that moment of emotion. So you know, you let go of the imprint of the conditioning and of the, you know. Yeah. Good and bad. Things are.

Amanda Parker: Beautiful. I'm glad I got that question in there.

Bjorn Aris: Thank you.

Amanda Parker: Is there anything else that you would like people who are listening to know or walk away with from?

Bjorn Aris: Have good trust in yourself, you know, have good trust in yourself, not, not in the one you think you are, uh, but in the one you really are.

Amanda Parker: Thank you so [00:59:00] much, Björn, for joining us on the podcast and sharing so much wisdom. I know this is going to be a very new topic for many people who are listening, and definitely expanding the range of what's possible and how people can connect to themselves.

So I really appreciate your time being here.

Bjorn Aris: Well, thank you for all your good work and effort and goodwill to, to set all this up, to make it possible. Again, thank you for being you and having this wonderful encounter with you. It's really, really, it's like, you're very warm and very welcome. Um, if people have a question, they can always drop an email.

You know, I, I always answer. I've got time for it. And I, you know, if I can do something, it makes my life worth living. So, um, always welcome.

Amanda Parker: Your email address, everything will be in the show notes, but feel free to say it out loud now for those who are listening.

Bjorn Aris: Okay, I'll do this then. Bjorn Aris, B J O R N A R I S at gmail.

com.

Amanda Parker: Perfect.

Bjorn Aris: Of course, it will be [01:00:00] confidential, but you know, welcome. Of course, welcome.

Amanda Parker: Thank you. And to everyone who's been listening in, thanks for tuning in to this episode of Don't Step on the Bluebells. See you next time. Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of Don't Step on the Bluebells. If you enjoyed this conversation, please give the podcast a five star rating wherever you listen.

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